Curse

Bryant Again · Aug 06, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

While it's admirable that so many want to get in and strike against imbalance, many don't look at the whole picture. The thing the community complains about the largest is usually just the most broken facet at the time. The game has a lot of things wrong with it, and the thing people are most vocal about are just where the game needs to go next to fix it.

Ghost Dog · Aug 06, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

@Snow Bunny: Because the community likes to complain and blow things out of proportion. Once one thing is nerfed, they jump to the next thing.
Next people will complain about trinecros and already are -_-

sabway compared to permanent invincibility the likes of a single player cheat code?

You like it because you abuse it.

I love the opinions of the biased people here.

Lawliet Kira · Aug 06, 2009, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Keep everything except this part: While you are maintaining shadow form, all damage you deal to foes, is reduced by 95%, this way you can still perma, but if u wanna do uwsc, gonna take hella long time and ppl wont bother with it

Snow Bunny · Aug 06, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

@Snow Bunny: Because the community likes to complain and blow things out of proportion.

Invincibility in a game is already something blown out of proportion.

In a single-player game, it's considered a "cheat", and in games like GoldenEye, you didn't get credit for completing missions with them enabled.

There's an idea. No rewards for missions/quests/ANYTHING completed if Shadowform was used.

QueenofDeath · Aug 06, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Just nerf SF and 55 monks and I'll be happy. No one should be able to solo elite areas or do them in 11 minutes either. Nerf the hell out of everything and get this game back to reality.

Bryant Again · Aug 06, 2009, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

sabway compared to permanent invincibility the likes of a single player cheat code?

You like it because you abuse it.

I love the opinions of the biased people here.

Are you comparing a full-slot hero build to godmode?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

There's an idea. No rewards for missions/quests/ANYTHING completed if Shadowform was used.

It pleases me to no end to still see some developers do this.

QueenofDeath · Aug 06, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
There's an idea. No rewards for missions/quests/ANYTHING completed if Shadowform was used

or if you are using more than 2 superior runes. :{P

Targren · Aug 06, 2009, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

I love the opinions of the biased people here.

Ok, I had to laugh.

Shasgaliel · Aug 06, 2009, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

There's an idea. No rewards for missions/quests/ANYTHING completed if Shadowform was used.

That would be great. I would like to see the same rule applied to 55 or 600 builds as well.

Betrayer of Wind · Aug 06, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

You guys think too much about "nerfing SF will destroy the skill,omg it will be removed from the game,noone will use it bla bla bla".

First,ANET does NOT need to nerf shadowform,but they need to rework it.
Although it will of course be less useful than it is now,they should make it useable.It does not need a smiter's boon nerf.Taking out the drawback of the skill will already be a nice start,and making it non-mantainable,or working on a diferent way.

Back on topic,i do think UWSC and most SC's will get hit hopefully due to a change to SF.Its simple,rework shadowform and u get rid of the SC's.
600/smite also compares,but its not even close to how fast SF runs are.

If they do not fix SC's,then all this time waiting for the update will be a big disapointment IMO.

mrs mindy · Aug 06, 2009, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by englitdaudelin

Regina, I think, said that they were watching the TEAM farming builds closely. That's why Cry of Pain took a nerf a while ago. A-Net doesn't mind solo farming, but the team builds knock things out of kilter.

I think the writing is on the wall for team speed clears and team farms.... but as someone above me said: why is it taking so long?

they mind

if you weren't on when they killed the solo plains farming (excuse me making it pointless to do, not killing it) that was solo farming.

Targren · Aug 06, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs mindy

they mind

if you weren't on when they killed the solo plains farming (excuse me making it pointless to do, not killing it) that was solo farming.

They apparently don't mind enough. If you're talking about the Mindflays... they don't spawn no mo'.

Toxic OnyX · Aug 06, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

perma-SF should never have been allowed again, it is a mechanic breaking build, yet the devs once again screwed up and brought it back into the game, now the robots cry if there is any mention of it being taken away from them.

you need to understand the player to understand the problem, they understand little beyond Perma-Sin and the few areas they know how to complete using their little broken build, so taking perma-sf away means they will quit the game, if something takes more than 20 minutes it falls outside of their concentration span.

The ability to abuse a game mechanic to clear an area makes you a leet player you know!

A-net are to blame 100% for the state of the game, they knew that they were offering up perma-sf again and knew that ppl will abuse it to farm areas but in their stupidity they didn't know just how far it would go, there is no game that is as badly balanced as GW is now, L2 was bad, wow has it's problems but no online game has a dev made godmode available to anyone in the playerbase willing to spend a few hours to lvl up specific class.

The solution to all these problems is as simple as revert all skills to PvP status (including PvE mobs and bosses) then there is no excuse for broken builds (other than the meta's in HA & GvG

) the only problem with this will be the onslaught of crying from the scrubs who cannot run anything other than a broken bar.

Anyone who defends Perma-SF as an acceptable build & denies it is broken just make me LOL they either have no concept of what they are talking about or know it is broken but could care less as long as they can farm the shiny crap fast, unfortunately these players are slowly becoming the majority as the players who see the problems not being fixed are leaving GW in the dozens.

unless a-net do something fast I shudder to think what state the playerbase will be in, in 6 months time, probably just dragging their knuckles across the keyboard after finding a new perma-mega-nuke bar after the devs add a 2000% dmg increase to PI if anyone in your party has SF on their bar

Targren · Aug 06, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX

you need to understand the player to understand the problem, they understand little beyond Perma-Sin and the few areas they know how to complete using their little broken build, so taking perma-sf away means they will quit the game, if something takes more than 20 minutes it falls outside of their concentration span.
...
The solution to all these problems is as simple as revert all skills to PvP status (including PvE mobs and bosses) then there is no excuse for broken builds (other than the meta's in HA & GvG

) the only problem with this will be the onslaught of crying from the scrubs who cannot run anything other than a broken bar.

Wow, you really are a troll. You have no idea what you're talking about and you just keep saying the same stupid thing all over again: "Undo the PvE/PvP skill split"

PvP and PvE are separate games with separate mechanics. There are no level 30 monsters with monster skills, a constant +10 energy regen coming at you in groups of 10 in PvP. Your solution is not one, your premises are insipid, wrong, and self-gratifying, and you've offered nothing to the discussion. Give it up already.

Betrayer of Wind · Aug 06, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targren

Wow, you really are a troll. You have no idea what you're talking about and you just keep saying the same stupid thing all over again: "Undo the PvE/PvP skill split"

He does have a point,SF is broken,people just don't want their gold mine taken away,it'd be like taking away candy from kids,they will cry and cry until u give it back,but u shouldnt give the kid candy in the first place.
People are used to UW clears of 20min tops,if anet get rid of the speed clears and make a 1h+ uw runs(which it should be),people will QQ cuz they cant get over it.it was anet's fault to give them perma SF and not fixing it in the first place,but now might be a bit too late since people got used to it.

Undoing the PvE/PvP is indeed a stupid idea tho.

AtomicMew · Aug 06, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

If they nerf UWSC to oblivion, I think a lot of people would just quit.

UWSC and to a lesser extent, FOWSC are currently the only two semi-difficult areas in the game that are actually possible to get a team together in reasonable time.

Contrary to popular belief, SF is not cakewalk. There are dangers in every area you need to know about and look out for. There is almost no margin of error in timing SF. At the very least, you have to actually pay attention, unlike 99% of PvE and that's probably why so many people enjoy it.

Quote:

perma-SF should never have been allowed again, it is a mechanic breaking build, yet the devs once again screwed up and brought it back into the game, now the robots cry if there is any mention of it being taken away from them.

There's actually no economic reason to nerf UWSC. Feather farming nets you comparable income. The difference, obviously, is that there is no danger... or variation in feather farming. At this point, you are just whining.

You could say the exact same things about 600, 55 or any other type of farming build.

Gill Halendt · Aug 06, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betrayer of Wind

it was anet's fault to give them perma SF and not fixing it in the first place,but now might be a bit too late since people got used to it.

Agree, but that's no excuse for not fixing it at all.

BTW, this discussion kinda reminds me of those endless threads about Ursanway last year. Same arguments, we all know how it went...

own age myname · Aug 06, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Why is everyone so upset over this? It's not like money makes you any better then someone who got all his things from a collector...

Toxic OnyX · Aug 06, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Targren I truly can barely be bothered to discuss this with you as you haven't got a clue about game mechanics but I will make this as simple as I can for you.
A-net killed PvE by splitting the skills and by adding stupidly OP badly thought out PvE only skills, PvE players have come to rely on broken builds to accomplich anything and a good majority would not have the first clue how to synergise bars in a party to be able to get things done, hence why the majority CANNOT (not will not) but CANNOT play PvP, they CANNOT understand how the skills are different, act different, don't throw out ridiculous power etc... do not understand how to kite, how to protect, how to play a role in any PvP team situation. THAT is how much PvE gameplay has degraded. Perma-SF abuse is simply the most extreme tangent of this PvE retard gameplay and ALL the blame rests solely on A-nets shoulders for re-introducing it and dumbing down PvE to the level that a spastic monkey can now play the game with little effort.

that clear enough for you?

@TraverSC
Feather farming nets you a similar profit, true, apart from the odd good drop from UWSC, but what do ppl feather farm with? yu Perma's (amongst other things) as for running a perma needing concentration are you kidding me, you have at least 3 seconds in which to cast SF that is the only bit of concentration you need, having to watch for the SF light blinking ready to be re-applied.

same old arguments put forward, SF is broken FACT, there should be no bar in the game that = godmode in solo form and the only true solo godmode is PermaSF.

Why did I quit GW, for these reasons and for the fact that instanced play is dead, once you have done everything 100+ times there is no replay value left and popping on here reminds me just how bad PvE play has become.

I'll bow out of this thread now as it seems that some ppl are quite happy facerolling their way through the game.

Skyy High · Aug 06, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

so tell me why. give me one valid reason other than "its not supposed to be that way!" Is it due to ego? Is it due to bragging rights? Is it to "put down" the players who are inexperienced in this game?

It turns the elegance of the 8-skill, team-based, player-skill driven combat system that GW did so well into a joke. When one build (arguably two, if you include 600/smite) can dominate any high-end dungeon you care to name with little modification or skill required, there is just no point to tinkering with other builds and skills, when such tinkering used to be a defining characteristic of GW, since you can't bring all of your skills to the fight at once.

I'm amazed these arguments have been going on for so long, and some people still think that everyone who wants SF nerfed is doing it out of spite or greed. Many of the most "hardcore" players, the rich old-timers who UWSC regularly, are also the most vocal about the fact that it should be nerfed. This isn't about spite, this is about sticking to the core principles of GW and resisting the trend towards dumbing down the game.